Windows Vista

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Yukiko
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Windows Vista

Post by Yukiko » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:13 pm

Windows Vista
Sincerely,
Yukiko

I would tell you a UDP joke but you might not get it.

Titus 2:13

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MontuZ
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Post by MontuZ » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:58 pm

I have to agree with you on that one.

Barbeirosa

Post by Barbeirosa » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:10 am

I agree with every word she said!!

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tekproxy
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Post by tekproxy » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:24 am

Completely.

I'll try to still have a good morning after reading those two ill-fated words.

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Post by Danielle » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:53 pm

I honestly like Vista. I've been using it since Beta 2, and I've never had any major problems. I still have RC2 running on a spare box and as soon as I get around to buying an upgrade I'm going to put it on my main box.

I'm curious though, any thing particular you don't like about it? Have you used it?

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Post by Haos » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:10 pm

I am not the suicidal type, that would be using Vista.

This system would make a computer working fast... but only if it would be working VERY FAST on XP... This means that any NORMAL system (I do not think XP is one) would be working EXTREMELY fast on such machine.

My boss was very persistent about getting Vista... against my opinion. So i got him one. After two days he wanted back his good old Win2k workstation... Desktop, belonging to my boss is not that old. Nforce2 mobo, Barton 3200+, 2,5 gb DDR400, two SATA Samsungs 160gb in RAID.

Vista is a giant resource hog. Even without any apps running, system idle process is less than 70% of cpu, because of all that security crap I doubt anyone would find usefull.

If you are content with Vista, try Win2003 Server, and observe the difference in pure SPEED.

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Post by Danielle » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:45 pm

I have Windows Vista Ultimate running on an Athlon 1800+ with 1GB of ram, an ATI Radeon 8500LE video card, two IDE 7200rpm hard drives.. and some motherboard by some manufacturer whom I can't recall. And this is RC2 with all the extra debug code in it.

I have no complaints about the system being painfully slow, or even really slow in general. Is it slower then XP? Sure. Is it slow to the point of being unusable? Not even close. Did I tweak it to turn of certain things that I do not want or need? Absolutely. I did the same thing on XP too.

The only thing that I'm losing out on with Vista, is the Aero glass interface. My video card is not powerful enough and doesn't support PixelShader 3.0

Oh, and I use 2003 everyday. Comparing a server OS to a consumer OS.. thats apples and oranges.

[rant] Oh, and this isn't aimed at the previous poster specifically, but I also love how people whine about Windows being unsecure.. then complain about "all the extra security crap". And don't say the UAC is crap because to be honest it's something Unix and Linux have been doing for awhile, and no one complains there. It's really annoying how people complain about Windows/Microsoft simply for the fact that it's the "cool/in" thing to do.[/rant]

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Post by Yukiko » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:32 pm

I thought the two words would be enough. I will give my reasons for disliking Vista but to be honest there are a few things I like so I'll give you all both sides.

Likes:
1. Microsoft figured out that an OS aimed at businesses and home users shouldn't look like a cartoon. XP in my not-so-humble opinion looks like a c artoon with the default install. Vista on the other hand has a certain elegant look to it. It's kind of pretty I suppose.

2. I happen to have the media center edition and it is definitely a decent system for media presentation.

3. Though it is ANNOYING Vista attempts to be even more secure than XP. B for effort and a++ for making security an annoying thing.

Yukiko wants to post on the POL boards.
[ALLOW] [DENY]


4. The sounds are prettier.
*giggles*


Dislikes:

1. 1 Gig of RAM for an OS!!!!! When will M$ understand that some of us just want a system that does what an OS should do. I for one don't need flashy animated progress bars, sparkly rotating icons in the title bar of a window and whatever else uses the Gig of RAM.

2. Software Compatibility issues. I use two Symantec proggies that are unable to run under Vista. One bluescreens the OS and makes it necessary to restore from a restore point (RP). The other doesn't bluescreen but it does make the OS refuse to boot and again you need to restore from a saved RP.

3. There is no, and I mean NO, way to make system backups of your HD that I am aware of.

4. The "buffer" between hardware that Vista imposes. Proggies have virtually no direct acces to hardware from Vista and I bet that is the reason for most compatibility issues. I am certain it is for one of my symantec proggies and I suspect the other one as well.

Vista is a bloated OS. It does come even closer than XP did to making PCs true "Appliance Computers" but some of us just want to do what we have always done and we DON'T want the learning curve of a new OS and we are happy with the bells and whistles we already have. I do very little with my computer. I check email, I script, I write fantasy stories, I play music and sometimes DVDs and I play UO. I want an OS that lets me do those things and functions related to them without all the fluff.

I bought a HP laptop with two (2) Gigs of RAM because Vista requires 1 Gig to run and I wanted some room for my apps to play in. 2 Gigs!!! I don't need that much memory! Heck, the most powerful app I run is Photoshop I think and that only rarely and even it's an older version cause I don't want to buy an upgrade for as little as I use it. The most powerful game I play is Ultima Online. 1 Gig is fine for me.

Because of the above stated incompatibilities I removed Vista and installed XP on my lappy. I got all the necessary drivers from HP and did the deed. The only things I can't get to work under XP are the bluetooth device and the built-in web cam but I don't have any bluetooth devices and I have never owned or used a web cam before so I don't miss those. I have a backup of the factory install of Vista and all the extra HP stuff that came with it. You are atleast alowed to make one, and only one, set of backup DVDs. So if I ever get proggies that will do what I need to replace my Symantec apps then I will probably go back to Vista just because it was part of what I paid for when I bought the thing.

*takes a deep breath*

So if you are not using any backup utilities or anything like PC Anywhere then Vista is OK I suppose but for me, at this point, I can't use it. I will eventually have to as will all you who are resisting. M$ is releasing with Vista a new replacement... errr... their own version of a Flash-type player that will only be viewable in Vista. You will not be able to add the plug-in to IExplorer on XP systems or so I have been told.

Warning: The following deviates from the main topic of this post.
Ofcourse we all know that according to Mr. Gate$ that M$ is not trying to put any company out of business. It's just coincidental that they stole Stacker technology, added ZIP compression, made their Internet Explorer an integrated part of Windows and now have started to put Macromedia out of business but that is another topic I suppose.
Sincerely,
Yukiko

I would tell you a UDP joke but you might not get it.

Titus 2:13

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Post by Danielle » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:32 pm

Yukiko wants to post on the POL boards.
[ALLOW] [DENY]
Thats the UAC I mentioned. It's been a staple of Unix/Linux for awhile now and one of the security features the Linux fandom always held over Windows. If you don't like it though, turn it off.

1. 1 Gig of RAM for an OS!!!!! When will M$ understand that some of us just want a system that does what an OS should do. I for one don't need flashy animated progress bars, sparkly rotating icons in the title bar of a window and whatever else uses the Gig of RAM.
Yep, it's a tad high, but you really should be running at least a gig now-a-days anyway.

Software Compatibility issues. I use two Symantec proggies that are unable to run under Vista. One bluescreens the OS and makes it necessary to restore from a restore point (RP). The other doesn't bluescreen but it does make the OS refuse to boot and again you need to restore from a saved RP.
But thats not a MS/Vista issue. Software and hardware makers have had a long time to get their stuff ready for Vista. A long beta period and a two month grace period after the OS went gold/RTM. Some did just that (ATI for example).. others have really dropped the ball (Nvidia for example). Yeah, it's still a problem with using Vista, just not MS/Vistas fault.

There is no, and I mean NO, way to make system backups of your HD that I am aware of.
Hmm, I'm guessing you have Home Premium and that feature is missing from that version. I know it's in Ultimate (it's called "Backup Status and Configuration") and i'm guessing Business aswell. It's found in Accessories > System Tools.


One of the biggest issues affecting the OS right now I think is drivers. Not only the problems mentioned before, but as the drivers progress and get more efficient/faster I think Vista will start to run a lot more smoothly on some of the systems people are having trouble with.

But hey, it's all personal opinion and taste. Use what ever OS makes you happy. Just be educated about your decision and don't jump on the "MS/Vista sucks" bandwagon because it's the cool/in thing to do (not saying you are). That! is what annoys me the most.

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Post by Haos » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:30 pm

Well, i know exactly what i am whining about... Microsoft OSes insecurity lies mainly in incountable bugs, as well as poor designing, NOT in the lack of security features, which are, because of two afforementioned problems a crap - mainly.

UAC is not the worst thing, although it is not even close to linux/unix solutions. And it is already been compromised... by the speech recognition exploits.

My worst nightmare is that %#$%#$ content protection, with AES crytpting/decrypting going at realtime prioity ALL THE TIME. This eats up to 30% of your cpu cycles... even when no protected content is being viewed. This whole content protection (here would go five arabian words for camel fecies) is also impacting on normal content being played.

Yes, ATI did try to prepare for Vista nightmare, but you should look for their opinions on that system... you wont find any positive opinions there.

What else?

No open source drivers (as any device information needs to be classified in order for a driver to be certified... and only certified drivers may be used).

Changing components will force you to activate system... and pay for it again.

All components used in Vista PC must be CP compatible, or CP multimedia will ofc be unavailable... while NON CP - would be limited in quality...

All of that is sauced with the typical M$ marketing mumbo jumbo, calling those limitations imposed on Vista... you wouldn`t believe... they call it "additional functionality, that has to impact system performance". In normal human language, this means: we loaded up Vista with plenty of (here would go five arabian words for camel fecies), so it would crawl like a turtle, but hey... everyone needs to have and to use it...

What in the name of seven sees does Vista have that earlier system do not?? UAC... that is not even working properly? Vista sucks... and not becauce thats cool. It`s bcauce it really sucks. And your statement works the other way: Use a system that you feel ok with... but dont use it only bcause its new and someone is telling you to use it. Before messing up with Vista installation, read smth about it first.

For more information, read this doc: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/p ... _cost.html

It is a detailed and up to date analysis of Vista.

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Post by Yukiko » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:55 am

Danielle wrote:
Hmm, I'm guessing you have Home Premium and that feature is missing from that version. I know it's in Ultimate (it's called "Backup Status and Configuration") and i'm guessing Business aswell. It's found in Accessories > System Tools.
If I remember right, and I have to go from memory because like I said I reverted to XP, I did have the backup feature of which you speak and I'll admit it's handy to backup your important documents and other files but I can do that simply by dragging them to a drive window and using the built in "burn to disc" feature of Windows. What I want is a way to create a set of recovery discs that I can use to recover my entire system in case of a disaster. There is no way to do that. BTW Austin has confirmed this. Now that doesn't mean there won't be a way but I am not yet prepared to spend more money on new software after spending what I just did on a new laptop.

Now in all reality I know that this is standard operating procedure for M$ when they release a major OS upgrade. The same thing happened with Win 3.1 to 95 and 95/98 to XP/NT etc. So I suppose I should be used to it by now and since I "choose" to run Windows rather than Linux then I shouldn't complain.

Anyway, I'll probably end up going back to Vista eventually anyway cause soon we won't have a choice.
Sincerely,
Yukiko

I would tell you a UDP joke but you might not get it.

Titus 2:13

Barbeirosa

Post by Barbeirosa » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:22 am

Yukiko wrote:When will M$ understand that some of us just want a system that does what an OS should do.
Amen

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Post by Haos » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:41 am

Sure we will have choice... www.reactos.org
There is hope.

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Post by Bracco » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:52 am

Haos wrote:Sure we will have choice... www.reactos.org
There is hope.
reactos is a very good project, i hope that it will become a true alternative to windows.

however, with vista the story repeats itself. i remember years ago people was complaining about XP in the same way i now see complains about Vista. in the end, everyone that's using xp today will end up using vista tomorrow.

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Post by Haos » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:08 am

And this is sad... see, win2k workstation is much better system than xp, even lacking network bridging as well as native wifi support. XP native wifi suxx anyway, so it is not a big deal... regarding performance and cpu usage, only 2k3 server is better.

My company is using 64bit Small business, but we have also previous 2003 standard... i`m using at my home desktop:P This stuff works so well, that i have doubts if it is really M$ product.

Regarding XP/Vista ranting... as i recall, we cannot compare those two. XP ranting was mainly around activation/WPA... Vista - about CP. Only one thing in common is bug/security holes issue. Regarding this, Vista has just begun.

Mark my words. Vista will never be as successfull/widespread as XP. No matter how much money would M$ pump in Vista`s PR.

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Post by tekproxy » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:41 am

I love Windows XP and Windows Vista. Not for my own use, of course, but it makes me money and provides me with hours, sometimes days of entertainment.

I fix computers on the side for extra cash, which comes in handy and I like to work. Without Windows XP or Windows Vista, I'd have a lot less calls. About 50% of my calls are because of bloated and broken software--like Norton Anti-Virus.

Also, before the slammer worm, me and a friend had the dcom exploit code. We got it so it wouldn't crash the machines when ran, so it was a quick nmap -sS -p139,5000 on a few big subnets and then a quick shell file to exploit them all, a quick batch file to get them to FTP to our server to download and run whatever we wanted, you get the idea. Any Windows 2000 or XP machine was exploitable, and Microsoft did very little to fix it for quite some time... Intentionally, I'd suspect.

Nearly everything Microsoft does makes great business sense. The best product or system is rarely the one used by most. Organizations interested in power or money stand to gain quite a bit by being clever and crafty, so they are. Microsoft intentionally makes bloated and inferior products, partially because they rush to meet deadlines (this 2006 was another 3-year "spike"), but also for other very clever reasons. I'm sure most of you have figured out that crappy bloated software requires better hardware. Hardware companies can chose between selling their computers with Vista, which forces people to upgrade more, or selling their computers without Windows.

Yeah, things may change some day in favor of Apple, Linux or ReactOS, but until then I'll run what I find useful. You'll never change anyone's mind about how good an operating system is because different people like different things. If you say you think Windows Vista is good, you're right. If you say it's total crap, you're also right.

Barbeirosa

Post by Barbeirosa » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:31 am

tekproxy wrote:Any Windows 2000 or XP machine was exploitable
Except those that were firewalled and/or host-based filtered properly, or followed any of a number of other best practices.

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