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Integrated Static Tool
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Pierce



Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 259

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:44 am    Post subject: Integrated Static Tool Reply with quote

I'm just working on a custom map2 getting a little insane while doing so Wink I think most of us know that building maps and statics need a lot of patience and a lot of knowledge of several tools (UO Landscaper, World Forge, UOSIR, UOSP .........). Imho there is no tool to create or edit statics2.mul and staidx2.mul except for random creation with UO Landscaper or install RunUO and use the freeze function there (just read that). This is way to complicated i think.

Cause 96 has ListStatics* commands i thought about an easy to use a feature at least for statics to build, edit or delete staticsN.mul and staidxN.mul files. The file formats for these files are well known and i thought about writing a pearl script but if pol can do that for all map statics it would be a lot easier and we all can easily do that just using pol.

I think about commands like:

AddItemsToStaticsInBox(( x1,y1,z1, x2,y2,z2, flags := 0, realm := _DEFAULT_REALM );

AddItemsToStaticsOfTypeInBox(( x1,y1,z1, x2,y2,z2, objtype, flags := 0, realm := _DEFAULT_REALM );

DeleteStaticItemsInBox(( x1,y1,z1, x2,y2,z2, realm := _DEFAULT_REALM );

DeleteStaticItemsOfTypeInBox(( x1,y1,z1, x2,y2,z2, objtype, realm := _DEFAULT_REALM );

Flags could be:
const IGNORE_Z := ??;
const IGNORE_DOORS := ??;
const IGNORE_INVIS_ITEMS := ??;

Just to mention the most important operations.
Pol could rebuild the staidxN.mul and staticsN.mul then and save it e.g. as newstaidxN.mul and newstaticsN.mul into the mul directory.

If that is possible, it could save a lot of time in world building. You only need to uoconvert the new files and restart the server to check your work.

Author Message
nevalon



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 39
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO good idea, it'll help a lot in world building.

Author Message
MontuZ
Distro Developer


Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 297
Location: Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some way of burning items into statics VIA pol would be absolutely wonderful.

Author Message
nevalon



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 39
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm what about automated uoconvert (but not all file, only edited part, so core will edit both mul and POL map .dat files)? I think it'll be possible.
And what about "unloading" them without restarting server? Is it possible? I know that client restart is required (mul files), but what about server?

Author Message
Tritan



Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 136
Location: Illinois, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Windows, if the file is in use changes can not be saved to them. That is why the restart would be required. At least that is what I have heard in the past.

Author Message
nevalon



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 39
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, you're right, I forgot this Very Happy

Author Message
Marilla



Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tritan wrote:
With Windows, if the file is in use changes can not be saved to them. That is why the restart would be required. At least that is what I have heard in the past.


That's actually not technically true - a program can choose what sort of lock to request on a file, and the operating system can grant or not grant that type of lock.

With that said, it is typical when a program must have constant access to a file which it expects never to change, that it requests a lock that prevents writing to the file. This is usually because changes in some part of the file could cause program errors due to the program making assumptions about what else it read from the file before - which may have changed in the interim.

I haven't tested it myself, but my understanding is that POL096 doesn't lock -ANY- of the mul files at all, since it's actually not reading them at all.

But the configs that it produces, which it has to read from time to time - POL typically does not lock them at all ever, except for the momentary locks when it actually is writing to them. This demonstrates what I said above: It's up to the program to lock or not lock, depending on how it uses the file in question. (of course, it's also likely POL doesn't keep those files open, but just opens them right when it needs them - but I still don't believe it locks the files at all while reading, as you would expect errors if you were editing a config file at the same time POL read from it, but I've never seen such an error)


ALL of that said... I think I would have to vote against including such features into POL, for two reasons:

One: The tools to do this are already out there, so why waste POL dev time (which is already so extremely limited) working on reinventing the wheel?

Two: I really don't want my production server clogged up with code for this sort of thing. Even if the above objection were made moot by a sudden influx of more dev team time than needed to accomplish the more important things that need to be done for POL, I would still object to this unless it were possible to configure POL not even to load the code which does this... as a dynamically loaded module, for example.

Author Message
Matrix



Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Canada, Quebec

PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stafflicker...

Author Message
MontuZ
Distro Developer


Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 297
Location: Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marilla I totally understand you'd rather have the devs bust out all the bugs. But this is a Feature suggestion. It doesn't really help pol, but it helps the users. That's what Features do. Atleast from my point of view, which to you is apperently very wrong. Very Happy

What you're basically saying is that you'd rather; cmd<coords/target> the item(s) you want static into a cfg, copy/paste the cfg, load up a program, burn the statics, etc.

Sphere/RunUO(One of the two) has it(I think) and no this isn't Sphere/RunUO. But you have to admit, it's a nice Feature for an emulator. And knowing you, you probably will still object to it/never agree to it even if we had the developers.

That's all I'm going to say, Anti-Feature. Smile Rawr.

Author Message
Marilla



Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unreal wrote:
Marilla I totally understand you'd rather have the devs bust out all the bugs. But this is a Feature suggestion. It doesn't really help pol


Thank you for making my point for me.

Author Message
Matrix



Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Canada, Quebec

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a song... In it, you can hear... Marilla Marillaaaaa.... (the song continu but I don't know the words...lol..) Anyway, this post is absolutely useless...

Author Message
Pierce



Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 259

PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought i made a feature suggestion. I don't wanted to start a personal war. It seems some of you want?. I suggest this, cause it seems only RunUO has a solution for that. I had to install this server now to solve that. I have to run through new commands for me. Nevertheless i think it will be a good idea for Pol, cause People should choose Pol for such a reason(feature). Maybe i am wrong.

Author Message
Yukiko



Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 1094
Location: Southern Central USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Pierce. POL needs tools like the ones being developed for RunUO. It seems to be defeating the purpose if we need to install a RunUO server just to be able to do map creation and editing in a userfriendly environment.

Now understand I have yet to even try one of those utilities developed for RunUO so they may not be as user friendly as I assume them to be. But to hear the propoganda from those developing them they sure sound like they are. Regardless of what is being done for/with other emulators, it would be nice to have tools like that for us.

I would even be willing to pay for such a program as long as the price was reasonable, say $20.00 to $30.00 US for a decent map editing and static editing program.

Author Message
melanius
Site Admin


Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 37
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed it would be nice to have such a feature. Though I'd prefer it to be a simple tool that does just that, and not integrate that kind of code into POL's core base.

Maybe a small just-do-this tool would be more handy/appropriate.

Author Message
Yukiko



Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 1094
Location: Southern Central USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes Melanius. I am sorry. I didn't mean to suggest that it should be integrated into the POL core at all.

I guess I should have stated it more clearly.

I meant to say that it would be nice to have an outside tool that would do what we need and be able to work in the same way Dundee's Other Hand does. It would be nice to be able to be logged into POL and while standing in a certain area be able to either add or remove areas from the map or statics simply by having the program "see" where we are in game. I am pretty sure that any map/statics mods would have to be done on copies of the map rather than the one being used. I am not sure if what I am thinking of is even possible for map editing. Any program that would allow creation of the map in realtime would be nice and that wouldn't have to be attached to POL in any way.

I wish I knew more about the grapjics end of programming. I never got into that much.

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