PenUltima Online

Stuck players are rectified a stuck-script. Really, what staff would the shard need? Things run rather smoothly, at least in my experience. What are your most frequent staff-requirement experiences?

Like back in the day, when POL chose a flagship shard to be it's "representative", Mytharria, and then TSSE if I remember correct?

Wow!
I finally got something right!

*marks the date on the calendar*

The shard will need to have some staff but how many is the question and can you find enough to people to staff it.

I don't run a UO shard; I use POL for other games. So maybe I'm just ignorant, but what problems are so common that the shard requires full time staff to manage it?

Well, I was thinking that if we want to attract players it might be a good idea to have staff to actively plan InGame events such as oh maybe quests or "holiday" or seasonal events. It's just my opinion ofcourse but I think that sort of thing attracts people. I guess we could just have a typical "RunUO" type shard where newbie players get slaughtered right and left because people just log in to see how high they can get their murder count.

Would staff be on hand to protect said newbies against said murderers? If thats the case, why not just throw up a Trammel-only shard and save yourself having to find adequate staff?

I see how staff would be useful (planning quests, running events) but are they necessary to just run a shard?

We'll know after this experiment.

Luth wrote:



I'm sorry but I thought that WAS running a shard.

Maybe I missed the point. I thought that the official POL shard was supposed to be a flagship for POL. A flagship is supposed to be the showpiece vessel for a new design. When preparing it for its debut all the brass and chrome is polished and the paint is fresh so as to make an awe-inspiring presentation to those who will see her for the first time. It would be ludicrous for a shipwright to bring out his new vessel and have the decks be bare and unpainted, the brass dull and drab and the sails be some old tattered worn out left-overs. No. He wants to disaplay his new ship with pride and so he takes great care in making sure she shines!

I guess the question is, "Do we want to just plop a bare, unstaffed, automated server out there and say "come and see our server" or do we want to make it appealing and inviting for players?" Hell, what's so impressive about an automated server? Whereas if it has staff that care about making a quality environment for people to become immersed in then we truly have something to show off.

Is it just a test server that people will maybe log into to fiddle around on or is it supposed to be a viable shard? If it's just a test server then why create a new one? We already have the one that gets wiped every week.

My point is that in order to attract players you need to create an attractive environment. A staffless shard is BORING. All you have with such a shard is players running around with no "purpose".

I guess my thoughts are if we just have a shard such as Luth is proposing then why should players come to it? To a player it makes no difference whether it's a RunUO shard or a POL shard. We need a way to attract players that differs from the typical hack and slash type of servers that exist. Give them substance, storyline, a world where they can escape from "real life" into a world of fantasy. That is what originally attracted me to UO. Once the scene is set and the shard has a core set of players and a responsive involved staff then the story should take on a life of its own and develop with little guidance from the staff but it starts with a staff that cares about creating a place conducive to Role Play.

Yes, Melanius, you have the right idea. I played on Journey's End when it was an active shard, back when Sigismund was running it. I came in too late to have been a part of the Mytharria versus Journey's End "wars" but I know how it used to be. THAT's the kind of thing I am referring to.

Or we can just turn on an automated self-running shard, if there is such a thing, and hope for a miracle.

Nice point you have there, Yukiko. Just one question: if the server would be staffed, whom would master the game? Most of us (idlers @ polserver.com) already have something of "our own" in a form of shard, I think most would like to stick in, so how could the good, active staff be gathered? How'd you do it?

Yup, there's really more than just one question.

ncrsn wrote
Those are valid questions. It's the same problem the developers are having getting Distro work from us. The fact is that a lot of us are busy with our own shards. In my case I have been in a "dry spell" as far as scripting is concerned. But your points are good ones.

I don't have any quick answers but I have a few thoughts.

We use the word community alot around here. I know I do and I think of us as one but when it comes to acting like I am a part of a community I fall short. If POL is going to have a flagship shard then we all must feel we bear some responsibility in getting her "ship-shape."

So with this in mind, here are a few proposals for consideration:

1. There are a few of us that have shards that are either barren or have very few players. Maybe we, the barren shard owners, need to humble ourselves and let go of our dream of having the "uberest" shard around, atleast for now, and hop aboard the POL flagship. I will be the first to say I'll consider it. We could still give time to our shards as well. There's no law saying we can't work on two projects at once. Ofcourse it is up to the POLitburo to decide on who will be on staff.

Let me say first before I state item 2 that I have not looked at the Distro lately so if I am mistaken on its feature content then feel free to correct me. Even so, the message of item 2 is still a valid one I think.

2. The typical Distros of the past have been fairly barren of features and for this reason most of us cringe when we think of running a shard with just the Distro scripts. I propose that we, the independent shard developers, donate atleast one script or package from our repertoire of custom scripts to the official shard. The submitted scripts would be given for use on the flagship shard and would not be released with the Distro unless permission is given by the contributing developer. In this way the contributing developer can prevent her or his work from being hijacked by someone else if they so desire. Ofcourse we should make every effort to integrate it into the Distro prior to submission. We don't want the developers to have to debug our scripts along with the other work they have to do.

3. The shard should have its own webpage. I don't know if the current POL site is able to handle the additional bandwidth and space but if not then someone could donate space. I can definitely do that. I have a paid host and 1.5 gigs of bandwidth a month that I barely use and would gladly make it available. I can host domains as well so no need to worry about a funky URL. I am a crappy web designer so someone else would have to step up to the plate for that.

I think there are other ways to support the shard but I am drawing a blank right now.

Anyway, just some ideas to ponder.

If the purpose is not to show off the shard, the culmination of a decade of work on the server core and distro package, but instead to show off the ingenuity, dedication, and most importantly, the abundant free time of the staff, then I was greatly mistaken.

To follow your analogy, a shipwright is responsible for the vessel itself; polishing the brass and chrome, as you stated. He wouldn't bother himself with choosing the right captain for the ship, or crew, or passengers, or cargo. Perhaps you see what I'm getting at.

Unlike you, I've not played on a single player run shard where the staff didn't utterly ruin the experience in the name of "fun." (Oh look, an undefeatable deamon suddenly appeared to ruin our guild training session! How fun! Whats that? A new castle for the GM's roommate? How fun!) In fact, my favourite shards were the ones that were bug-free, had all the features I'd come to expect, and left me and my cohorts to our own devices to make the game fun. I don't have a single fond memory of staff interaction, but many, spanning the years, of creating our own goals and achieving them. That was, after all, what Richard Garriott had in mind when he created this virtual world platform (note that I did not call UO a game; in the strictest sense, it is not).

Now I certainly see the virtues of creating a personalized starting quest for every player which rewards him with a rainbow steed and shiny armour of the heavens (it's done wonders for WoW), but that is not UO. (Or, at least, not the UO I played. I hear you guys have Ninjas now?) I'm all for showing off the ship for what she is, a sturdy boat in much need of a new coat of paint, but I think I disagree with your focus. If UO has become the quest-centric, instant gratification game that all other MMOs are, then I'm glad I missed it, and I withdraw my support. While I would be happy to continue contributing scripts to Distro and working on the Core, I wouldn't be caught dead playing Dungeon Master.

What im envisioning at this time is to upgrade that computer to have enough memory (currently only 768) to run the tech demo as it does now and the distro shard.

The distro is supposed to be similar to OSI but not exact. As it stands ive added little extra gimmicks and creative things to it just to make it a little more interesting.

Ah, well there's my blind spot I guess because I have never played on OSI shards. I've only talked to those who have played OSI. So I gather up until EA/OSI added the necromancy, paladin, spellweaving and other AOS/ML items that POL Distro features were pretty much the same as OSI, ie. no special effect ore and no potions other than the "standard" ones? Sorry for straying off topic but I was curious.

It's your computer/effort Austin. I stand by my conviction that you will need staff if for no other reason than to assist players with questions.

Oh and as far as the reference by someone about "us" having ninjas, that was an addition by EA/OSI and as far as I can recall many people ridiculed it and I refuse to script anything to do with bull-shido and ninjitsu. I guess it's time to revive that old ninjas versus pirates thread again.

The only reason I haven't considered elevated command levels is because I don't anticipate many (actually, if any) players regularly being on.

I played OSI servers up until they introduced Trammel. That killed the game. Any social structure that had come to exist (by players, mind, not by staff and game rules) was destroyed and the game died. I went over to Stratics and, yes, it appears that what I'd heard of Ninjas, and what you just mentioned of Paladins and Necromancy and all that crap is true. I'm glad I missed it.

I'm all for people adding new content to their shards. I'm even all for people staffing their shards with dozens of Seers and GMs crafting events and quests for players. And hey, if people want ninjas in their dragon-game, go for it. It's just not my cup of tea. A good mmo is one that does not require staff intervention. Maybe thats just the programmer in me talking......

Player-run shard is an ideal solution to me, too. But I don't see how present distro would allow players to do that: it's pretty static platform. If players wipe a dungeon, how it affects spawns? If a forest is cut down, does it allow large buildings be build in it? If whatever happens, is it up to players' imagination to see the results, or is there scripts to really make the difference?

Am I to understand that pol's distro does not have area respawning, and can forests can be permanently cut down? I know its been a long time since I worked on Distro, but thats a little hard to swallow.

The point is, there is nothing like that in the distro.

If there were, the idea would be wonderful! Not too many *really* player run shards exists! If POL's distro shard would be like that, with all unique atmosphere, dynamic systems, own ideas that no-one else has, I'd be all in.

At its current state it is not, and though I still support the idea on my own way, I'm afraid it does not do a difference comparing to shardless alternative. Unless its existance motivates people to participate scripting the distro and making it *our* own.

--

When it comes to choppable forests, no, it cannot be done without using items (multis) to build the forests. Statics are way too static even this day.

I personally prefer people who know what they talk about. If you don't run a UO Shard, in my opinion you don't know what you are talking about Maybe you've experience, somewhere ago. But i think for an active Dev, you should run an active shard. That statement personally made me shiver. I thought that active people were choosen.

Let me illuminate. I:
am a commercial game developer,
played UO from early '98,
built my own shard on Sphere,
rebuilt my own shard on POL,
was on the distro team probably before you knew what UO was,
have played PR shards since I quit EA's abomination,
am a site administrator on the longest running UO bug site,
am a site administrator here,
am currently helping write the core server,
am currently writing a new MMO using the POL server, something which (I believe) has never been done,
don't know anything about ninjas or paladins in UO, and don't want to,
just booted up POL + distro, so I am technically currently running an active UO shard,
think you'd better educate yourself before you start accusing others of ignorance.


Who are you again?

If Austin decided to host an official POL shard, it wouldn't slow down the development of the distro. If anything, it would speed it up. You get more work done when people report bugs and hand out suggestions. By people, I mean players. If you don't understand that concept and you host a shard, I don't think you'll get very far.

On another note; Who's going to staff? I'll donate some time each day. I'm usually doing something with my shard, but it's not hard to duel client and it'll make up for my lack of assistance with the distro.

Luth has the aura of making people to turn the discussion offtopic.

Which I can resist.

Keeping it on topic then:

Who would be interested in staffing it? Seems a lot of people are, which is groovy.

Heh. What can I say; I'm controversial.

Here are some random thoughts. These shouldn't be considered accusations or reasons why this should not be done. Think instead "Discussion starters" or at least "My concerns to be addressed":

- The whole UO experience is too big for a low (starting) player population. 10 players spread out over all of Britannia and its multiple realms... one would never "accidentally" run into anyone. Perhaps artificially limiting the playable world boundaries to try and force population density, and expand them as the density rises. Perhaps a "Bring a friend to Britannia" reward might increase the rate at which the player base grows as well.

- If the players come to rely on staff in order to have fun, then the players will quit as the staff quit. And staff *always* quit. Players will come for the staff-player interaction, and not for "the game." However, if the player can come for "the game" and staff are optional, extra fun things that occasionally happen, then they'll continue to stay for "the game" and enjoy the staff as they come and go.

- Allowing anyone who wants to staff to be staff may be a mixed blessing. While I think that anyone who wants to contribute to Distro should be allowed, applauded, thanked, and treated to a round at the pub, its much different than allowing random staff to come and go all the time. For one thing, why sign up as a player on the shard when you can just as / nearly as easily become one of the staff? For another, and maybe I'm alone in these experiences, you have no idea who is going to be a good person to have on staff, or one who'll ruin the game experience for players because they think its "fun."

- Perhaps an in-game reward for adding to / fixing the Distro scripts. Providing incentive to helpers is always a good idea.

I think my issue with staff and their interaction InGame has become distorted. This is what I originally said regarding staff interaction:

"Well, I was thinking that if we want to attract players it might be a good idea to have staff to actively plan InGame events such as oh maybe quests or "holiday" or seasonal events. It's just my opinion ofcourse but I think that sort of thing attracts people."

and then later...

"We need a way to attract players that differs from the typical hack and slash type of servers that exist. Give them substance, storyline, a world where they can escape from "real life" into a world of fantasy. That is what originally attracted me to UO. Once the scene is set and the shard has a core set of players and a responsive involved staff then the story should take on a life of its own and develop with little guidance from the staff but it starts with a staff that cares about creating a place conducive to Role Play."

That clearly is not "creating a personalized starting quest for every player which rewards him with a rainbow steed and shiny armour of the heavens" as Luth seems to have found somewhere in my words. Nor did I say that UO should be a "quest-centric, instant gratification game [like] all other MMOs."

If you read the last sentence of my quote it's pretty clear that after the shard has been launched and it has enough players to sustain itself the staff will not have to be involved that much.

I do understand the dangers of actually having humans involved with overseeing the game. There's always the danger of staff having their pet players for whatever reason. I know on the shard I started playing on there were times when certain individuals were shown favouritism for various reasons, some because the staff thought they were good RPers to some for more prurient reasons. Unfortunately, there's always going to be the problem of favouritism where humans are concerned. That is not a legitimate reason to discount the need for supervision and oversight of players. I could make the argument that forums such as these do not need moderators since the forum software runs "flawlessly" and the SQL server seems to do just fine without human intervention but I see we do have moderators here. Just as forums need moderators and, I might add, new forum categories, ie. the rants and POL 98 areas which were not here in the early incarnation of the current boards, so does a shard need staff for the same reasons.

Luth, I understand that having, and forgive me for my pejorative here, idiots for staff can ruin game play. I gather you were a victim or know some who were victims of that sort of crap. It's unfortunate that things like that happen but it's also unfortunate that it has jaundiced your views as well.

What confuses me now is your apparent change of attitude regarding staff interaction. You seem to favour rewards from staff for bringing a new player to the shard. You said also that perhaps players should be given "an in-game reward for adding to / fixing the Distro scripts. Providing incentive to helpers is always a good idea."

These are certainly examples of direct InGame GM interaction with players and the last example would certainly be an Out of Character event. Not that I am opposed to either one if that's what the shard owner wants.

Maybe I misunderstood and you were just being sarcastic.

Anyway, it appears that the shard Austin intended was pretty much a simple "utility" shard which is perfectly fine. He's the one hosting it. I just misunderstood its purpose.